djbdns
[Top] [All Lists]

Re: blocking IP ranges from querying tinydns

To: dns@list.cr.yp.to
Subject: Re: blocking IP ranges from querying tinydns
From: Kyle Wheeler <kyle-djbdns@memoryhole.net>
Date: Mon, 21 May 2007 09:15:19 -0600
Comment: DomainKeys? See http://antispam.yahoo.com/domainkeys
Delivered-to: sp-com-lists@consult.net
Delivered-to: gmail-djbdns@securepoint.com
Delivered-to: sp.com.list@gmail.com
Delivered-to: mailing list dns@list.cr.yp.to
Dkim-signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=memoryhole.net; h=received:comment:domainkey-signature:received:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:content-type:content-disposition:in-reply-to:user-agent; q=dns/txt; s=default; bh=xg4yJO/tCwNjAdh5a8W7W1Q54OA=; b=GaUNM6J49LrHur0huP6syaajsXFvoulCnBwQs2PwL8JDXPhK8wl7RoQGx3MWmZn/Zy4W1um64HjGSK0gpq6Gxl9qSBdXyjHRoOHXXdd+cgBGs9AZeywXWToTPzPt0mMD7t6ZIDq8qNt38hcoXs4mXtqCUxkiuWGJoR4rxDWeGX4=
Domainkey-signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=memoryhole.net; b=b9cEKzxyDXGQxNSC6cpbTCanwaPu5EbVc1QWyWuavjOB2Yjk2faw0Ub6b6J5ky1nRN0fSPOleaqPAx6ypRhqnTTgKQw7OeQnte9txk9syafdhXe2eQeiwdc4lo+ngdxnXyZwNabfk4TTC1KtBeR972vBu+6niSh4dXCSGWkuepY= ;
Domainkey-status: good
In-reply-to: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0705152237390.16269-100000@citation2.av8.net>
Mail-followup-to: dns@list.cr.yp.to
Mailing-list: contact dns-help@list.cr.yp.to; run by ezmlm
References: <F90CBE4A61004D4EA06B206EAEAFB377012B8830@usat-vocex12.usatoday.us.ad.gannett.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0705152237390.16269-100000@citation2.av8.net>
User-agent: Mutt/1.5.15cvs (2007-05-20)
On Tuesday, May 15 at 10:56 PM, quoth Dean Anderson:
I get a 404 on this page,

Oops. My mistake. It should be:

http://www.av8.net/IETF-watch/People/JohnLevine

I've heard this a lot. In nearly 10 years of calling ISPs a couple times a month to remove unlawful blocks (which escalates to lawyers about once every 6 months after running into a SORBS-partisan sysadmin), no ISP lawyers have ever disagreed.

Unfortunately, the state of our legal system is such that ISPs tend to be so nervous about legal things that they will do things when asked even when they don't have to. For example, you can demand that an ISP take down a website for DMCA violations, and chances are they'll do it without even glancing at the website they take down (http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CA553.htm).

Interloc was also dubious. Their view got the company criminal charges

No, their *actions*, combined with the views of the prosecutor, got the company criminal charges. There's a difference. Thought-crime is not *yet* a punishable offense in America.

and a $250,000 fine. The company plead guilty. The IT sysadmin plead guilty, and were fined $2100 in a plea deal to testify against Councilman.

Pleading guilty is not a binding legal precedent. All it really means is that the defendant didn't want to fight their accuser for some reason. It doesn't validate the law, and doesn't make for a case that can be cited when prosecuting other similar offenses. There are many reasons that defendants plead guilty, though (unfortunately) actual guilt is a pretty rare one. Generally, it's because the defendant decided the charge wasn't worth fighting---which is particularly the case with Interloc since Alibris didn't seem to like the original behavior to start with. Fighting such charges is often quite expensive, and paying a fine is often the cheapest way out. That's why most "big" cases involve either lots of money at stake, or matters of principle (with very bull-headed litigants).

In the end, though, this particular case (Interloc) seems to me to be rather irrelevant, since it's talking about making copies of emails, not whether or not DNS information should be made available to everyone. There is a fundamental difference between a crime based on some piece of data getting into the hands of those who shouldn't have it (i.e. wiretapping) and an act (crime?) based on some piece of data NOT getting into the hands of someone with a "right" to know it.

Suppose, just for example, your phone company won't let anyone in Canada call you. That's very different, from a legal perspective, from if they were recording all of your phone conversations. In the former case, you can just say to yourself "this policy stinks, I'm going to get a different service provider." In the latter case, however, there are much bigger issues at stake.

And finally, despite DNS being viewed as "public" information by some, it absolutely is not necessarily public information. There are lots of people who, for example, have a split-horizon DNS setup where computers within their own network get different answers than computers outside the network---the answers given to the internal computers are most certainly *NOT* "public" information. Just because you communicate a piece of data via a particular protocol doesn't make it automatically "public". Take, for example, the Department of Defense's classified network. They use DNS, but that network isn't physically connected to anything else. Surely you don't plan on claiming that all of that DNS information is public information? DNS provides a means of distributing information, nothing more.

~Kyle
--
The chief enemy of creativity is 'good taste.'
                                                      -- Pablo Picasso

Attachment: pgpKFQdFJlv4B.pgp
Description: PGP signature

<Prev in Thread] Current Thread [Next in Thread>